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What do you guys think Bioware tried to put across with the ending?

Discussion in 'Mass Effect 3 General Discussion' started by KingofBulgaria, May 21, 2012.

  1. Nachtdämmerung Elite Member

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    Agreed to that, if you have a team of writers that can offer new perspectives when you're stuck then it's quite easy to overcome a writer's block.

    But I don't think that's a writer's block was the problem. It was either time constraints (the game felt sooo rushed...) or someone (let's call him Casey Walters for the moment ;)) came up with an idea he thought was "meaningfull" and "deep". And although it doesn't really fit into the entire trilogy he liked his idea so much that he forced it into the game (while the rest of the writing team was performing a mental facepalm, I'm sure :D)

    To the OPs question:
    In my opinion: yes, one can find a bit deepness in the current ending. You can analyze it, make interpretations and of course lots of speculations. The problem is, it's neither new nor mind-blowing. For one semestre I'd studied contemporary sci-fi short stories from the 50's up to the 90's...I like things Star Trek & Star Wars but also films like 2001: A Space Odyssey or The Fountain.
    And, with that in mind, nothing in the end of ME3 is very special for me...it's a bit of Matrix, Deus Ex and the old theme of artificial life vs. organic. And the "best" solution to that problem is supposed to be this synthesis thing...because it totally solves the problem *sigh*

    That's all...not really deep :(
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  2. VinceMayCry Elite Member

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    If there was a "funny-agree-like" rating I could have rated your post correctly, but unfortunately, there isn't ;)
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  3. FoolishOwl Active Member

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    If it played out as I'm suggesting, then yes, it would definitely be a lapse of professionalism. An explanation is not a justification.
  4. Lil One Creative Team

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    ...and I'd give it to you for that post. o_O
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  5. jmquintela Member

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    All I have to say is:

    "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep."
    Scott Adams

    Oh and this:

    "I don't believe in total freedom for the artist. Left on his own, free to do anything he likes, the artist ends up doing nothing at all. If there's one thing that's dangerous for an artist, it's precisely this question of total freedom, waiting for inspiration and all the rest of it."
    Federico Fellini (1920 - 1993)
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  6. Lil One Creative Team

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    Oh, and just read the title of the thread...

    ...and thought "a fast one!" [IMG]
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  7. Thunderbuck Creative Team

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    It's natural to become cynical. That's the true krogan way. You become a cynical and battle scarred. Not sure is we have a med bay here so if you do start bleeding profusely just yell and I'm reasonably sure I'll hear you. Maybe.:D
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  8. cuttlefish-htewing Elite Member

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    We have a medbay. Go through the second door behind the bar, up the escalator, and it's right at the top on the landing. Just watch out for @Justin Simpson's gnomes, they're doing community service in the kitchen. Occasionally they get loose and we have to round them back up.
    </ChatroomInsideJokes>
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  9. Milena Elite Member

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    .I think Mr. Hudson wanted to try his hand at writing and failed.

    If one returns to their older titles you can see stories in those are pretty complex. Complex, plot shifted more than a few times, but you could understand everything. You could understand the meaning in the story by the time you got around to deal with the final boss. Neverwinter nights, Baldur's gate, KOTOR are example of games with complex stories with brief endings. And there was nothing wrong with them. They are inspiring and satisfactory. Mass effect 3 is probably the first game where you will simply stare at the monitor confused as hell. Then this thought will be present. After the credits the slides with epilogues for everyone will come along and when you get the star gazer scene you'll still scratch your head thinking what the hell just happened?

    If the ending to this shooter space game has a deeper meaning than I'm an orc and persons who see the deeper meaning are first and most wise elves.
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  10. cuttlefish-htewing Elite Member

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    KOTOR, if I'm not mistaken, is generally considered to be one of the best story-based games written. Great characters like HK-47 and Canderous, plus that surprise plot twist that's really hard to see coming your first playthrough unless you're paying really good attention, getting an ending that reflects your decisions ... it's one of the reasons I trusted Bioware games until ME3.
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  11. Milena Elite Member

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    The plot twist had a greater impact if you didn't even got on the wookie planet the first time... Never thought we'd see that trust broken.:(
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  12. FOXHOUND Elite Member

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    I am just guessing that they were planing on making this ending the way it is when we seen it and force a lot of us to buy the EC DLC 20$ or more later on without using a lot more $$$ when they already have to put in this game. (Just Saying):unsure:
  13. Gmandam Strategic Team Leader

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    Well the optimist in me hopes that they were pushed for time and went with the most classic of Sci-Fi themes the differences between the organic and synthetic and the idea of a new beginning as well and maybe then if people were blindsided enough they'd get to fix them later on.

    The cynic who holds a lot more power over me atm thinks it was a cash grab, A way of seeing if they could cut out the ending and get a extra 8 quid out of you for the privilege of a proper ending and it's not totally unbased either with "Day-One" DLC that should be a part of the game but isn't for a extra 8 quid and their CEO's comments.
  14. Breefolk Creative Team Leader

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    Wait, I think I figured it out! I finally understand what the ending means!

    Think about it. The choices we're given are A) Control the Reapers, B) Synthesize all life to be both organic and synthetic, or C) Destroy the Reapers.

    "Synthesize" doesn't make sense in this context, since it apparently "unsynthesizes" synthetic life, so let's use a more accurate term: it alters all life to be both synthetic and organic.

    So, now we have A) Control the Reapers, B) Alter all life to be both organic and synthetic, or C) Destroy the Reapers.

    If you "destroy" the Reapers, you will have "deleted" them from existence. So, that leaves us with A) Control the Reapers, B) Alter all life, or C) Delete the Reapers.

    Control, alter, or delete.

    Ctrl, alt, delete.

    [IMG]
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  15. Nachtdämmerung Elite Member

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    So Casey Walters came up with the ending by looking at his keyboard? Wow, I'm stunned and in awe...the Keyboard Theory...it makes perfectly sense now :D
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  16. CerberusOperative56 New Member

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    ........That is a quite disturbing take on the endings.....excuse me as I Rage Quit....
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  17. Tom Kenney New Member

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    Control / Alt / Delete ... brilliant.

    With respect to the OP, I think there is no deeper meaning in the ending as written. Whether due to writers block, failure of vision or whatever, a great team of people failed to deliver the knock out punch on an otherwise amazing story.

    I love stories full of hidden meaning and and complexity. They're fun to think about and talk over. Examples? Game: Planescape:Torment, Book: 5th Head of Cerberus, Video: The Wire. Mass Effect 3 certainly had the potential to make the shortlist of great games. Throughout the ME series there are great moments where you just sit and stare at the screen in amazement. Not so much deeper truths, but lots substance and conflict all wound together in a tasty hot pudding. The ending tastes like the paper on which a really great recipe was printed.

    If there is a deeper meaning to the game's resolution it's buried in somebody's notebook at the bottom of a pile somewhere in Edmonton.
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  18. ZuS New Member

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    Yea, I think they did. It's probably a little far fetched for all of you ppl, but bear with me for fun anyway :)

    I think there are two things they went for - the philosophical choice and the indoctrination awakening, both relating strongly to reality. The philosophical choice is the good old set of possibilities we are given for how to change the (real) world:

    1) Attain power in order to change things (Control)
    2) Work within the system (Synthesis)
    3) Violent rebellion (Destruction)

    Here the player gets to agonize over the implications, feel fear for himself and his loved ones, be weakened in his resolve and pick the option that seems to be the least of the three evils.

    The indoctrination awakening is the consequence of the choice. The player feels these choices are inadequate, somehow empty and deeply unsatisfying. He/She (yea, we all know there are no Shes, but anyway...) feels that it doesn't work, because the player is alone in the choice. We miss our crew, quite literally. We're no longer a part of a team, no longer can we draw on opinions of others, their humor and their support. All this, all the pretty colors become meaningless without the (imaginary) people we do it for.

    Then the writers take hard stances on the choices and give you a straight answer: the first two you do not awake from; they are basically spiritual death, no matter what pretty pictures you dream for yourself afterwards. There is no control of the system or working within the system, both are just excuses for accepting submission. The violent rebellion is NOT a solution, but a beginning of a social awakening. You breathe, but you still desperately miss your crew.

    Ultimately, all three options are thrown away, although the last is seen favourably as at least good intent and a start, if ignorant. The only option for changing the world that is substantial starts after you draw breath, free from indoctrination for the first time. It is not shown to you, but you feel it viscerally: bottom-up mass dissent and struggle, shoulder to shoulder with others. And then you go online and talk to thousands of people world wide about how angry you are. Good practice :)

    This gives us the feeling for the untaught history of how almost all civil rights, minority, labor and environmental protection legislation was obtained throughout the past century and more. BioWare demonstrated, intentionally or not, that things do not have to get bad for people to rally in the real world; all we have to do is lift our aspirations and hopes sufficiently high by working together.
  19. Breefolk Creative Team Leader

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    So, what you're saying is that BioWare wanted to piss us off?:confused:
  20. ZuS New Member

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    I edited the post; it now says "intentionally or not". Although they apparently care about some things, like gay rights for example, giving a corporation credit for encouraging bottom-up dissent is not something that should be done lightly.

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