Holding The Line, But Losing My Grip!

Starting my first thread here!

Trying desperately to Hold The Line, but it is becoming more and more difficult. It's not just the ending of ME3 anymore. I've realized there are more layers to my BioWare/EA grumpiness and it just keeps compounding. I've managed to stay calm and not angry or snarky (at least I think so), but it is increasingly difficult to do so. At this point I really want to throw things! So, I'm venting. Now I know why people have blogs!

I guess it really started with changes from ME1 to ME2. The inability to scour a planet for resources from its surface, the addition of "ammo", the inability to equip squad mates' armor without DLC outfits, and some others I felt moved the franchise farther away from the core of a good RPG. However, the positive changes and the excellent story telling more than overcame these changes. I mean, I can't play ME1 now because the combat was so improved in the 2nd one. And being forced to work with the enemy (you knew Cerberus were going to be one of the bad guys, right?) was a compelling story arc.

Then came DA2, which suffered from some similar items, but did not make up for it with an excellent story/adventure. DA2 took too many choices away from the player - race, background, "outfits" again for party members and not being able to equip 90% of what you find on anyone (no idea about DLC with this game though), how to prrogress the plot, and probably a few more. The biggest issue was the plot itself. Being beaten over the head with the mage/templar plot was old after ACT I. Not having the options of pieces of the plot to progress after similar instances in ME1, ME2, and DA:O was a big let down. You had a bunch of things to accomplish before the plot continued, but had no set order to do them in. In ME, you could go get Liara right away or wait nearly indefinately. In ME2, you could choose which dosier to pursue. In DA:O, you could choose which treaty to pursue. There were some bright spots (Varric, inter-party banter, the Arishok) and maybe as the first game in the franchise it would have been great, but as a sequel I felt it failed miserably. I thought almost the entire game was as poorly written as the ME3 ending.

That brings me to The Old Republic. Love Star Wars. Always have. This game makes me like Star Wars less. I don't know if it's the MMO aspect of it. It very well could be - I've only played one other and that was Everquest for a month or two when it came out. It has to be difficult to write 8 storylines and hundreds of side quests, but the game feels uninspired. It is simply not immersive in the least and is often tedious and boring. The stories have not held my interest. There are other issue, to be certain, but I just don't know if they are MMO related, or just poor game design.

And that leads me to the ME3 ending debacle. That's why I first came here. I have a few other issues with ME3, but the ending definately trumps them all. Lack of closure and explanation aside, this sums up how I feel:




For those who don't know, Paul Stanley is the lead singer of KISS and when they wore makeup, he was know as the Starchild.

I'm one of those that want change and not simple explanation/closure. But I am willing to see what explanation/closure they present. Of course, I also have no choice as they have stated more than once that there will be no change.

Anyway, to further add to my angst, BioWare released a patch in April that rendered my game (xbox) unable to get past the main menu. At first, BioWare was responsive and posted on the BSN that they were aware of the issue and were investigating a fix. A month later, they inquired for more info for those of us still having issues. They've been silent since. The most recent patch did not solve the problem.

Inquiries to BioWare result in being directed to EA customer service. They have been less than helpful. After having dealt with 4 or 5 different individuals, I was "escalated" and that person simply asked me how long it had been occuring and what steps had been taken. Mind you, all items previously addressed multiple times and readily viewable in the case notes I have access to (I assume they have access to all case notes and correspondence as well).

At this point, I don't think that the ECDLC can repair this relationship. I was holding out hope, but now I just don't really see any. It was when I referred to it as "Extended Crap" that I finally realized that in my mind, there was no way it would good enough to fix the breech I feel BioWare has created as a consumer.

It it sad. I have enjoyed many BioWare games since Baldur's Gate made me realize that I needed to invest in better computers many, many years ago. I will check out ECDLC if I can play the game when it comes out (a big if at this point). I'm just not so sure I care anymore.

Thanks for listening folks!

I've noticed a few folks are getting more cynical the longer time wages on...understandably so, and I count myself among them so don't take that the wrong way. But its quite possible, that's what BW wants...they want all of this to fade away, that is clear as day...they don't care if we're bitter so long as we shut up. Because somehow they think, they'll get past this if they just stick to their guns..maybe this is EA-induced, but whichever company believes this, consists of morons. There is no way in hell they'll sail away from this if the EC sucks. Their precious franchise will forever be marked as a failure, regardless of prequels or whatever else. Maybe they're okay with that, because they seem to be on Greek-God pedestals with their overbearingly arrogant 'artistic integrity'. If the EC turns out to be tied to IT in some way, then okay, some of us didn't get what they were gnawing at, but that isn't our fault, it's THEIRS for making the foreshadowing too damn subtle. Regardless they have degraded us instead of apologizing. I'm hoping for their own damn sake, that there's an in-game apology, that comes with the EC...Otherwise even if the DLC is good, there will always be resentment for their do-no-wrong pride...at least from me.
Quite frankly...if DA3 were to come out tomorrow, I wouldn't feel the NEED to get it, like I would've before I played ME3. I know its not the same group of writers, I actually caught footage of a panel talking about DA3 and it sounds fairly promising....but all of this PR crap, has really tarnished my view on BW, beyond the point of repair. There will always be distrust there now.

I felt the same way a little while back, @The Berserker. But then I started playing through Mass Effect 2 again, and my love for holding the line was reborn. I probably sound like a broken record, but the characters deserve so much more. I was too busy being selfish that I forgot what gave me the desire to search for a website like this in the first place, the characters. I just can't give up on them. Yes, they're fictional characters, I get it. But real or not, I care about them.

What if Dr. King gave up on his civil rights movement?

What if Rosa Parks had moved to the back of the bus?

What if Cory had given up on Topanga when they broke up?!

I realize the first two (and maybe the third) are more serious than a video game, but you get my point.

One person is capable of changing history, and a group of people make that vision even stronger. It's like @Gmandam said, we're right here with you, and we'll be here to pick you up and dust you off when you lose hope

Right there with you, Berserker! Of course, I've always been a cynical creature, so the second I saw the end of ME3, I came to the conclusion that Bioware, as a producer of good RPGs, is simply dead. Two mediocre games (DA2 and TOR, which might be considerably less insulting if not for their ties to much better games) is worrisome, but ME3 took it from something I could write off as a slump or simply being spread too thin, and made it a trend. Logic dictates that, given that everything the studio has released since EA bought them has been painfully average, Bioware is in its death throes. Much as I would love to be proved wrong, this has been my gut feeling from the very start of this whole mess.

Honestly, if this community weren't so friendly and engaging, I'd have given up a long time ago. Come for the (slim) hope, stay for the friends.

Just watch this. I made this a while back but it still rings true today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Na_gnjcQj8s

IF that doesn't work, this always does.


Now get up and dust yourself off before I feed you to my thresher maw. Lately I've been feeding it Bioware's bullshit but she's getting tired of that.

I often find that this helps.

@The Berserker - firstly, I feel your pain. I think everyone here has been in your shoes to some degree. The realisation that the Bioware of 2012 is definitely not the Bioware who made KOTOR was not a pleasant one for me. I also agree that the ME3 ending isn't an anomaly - it's the latest point on a line going in a direction I don't like. Bioware have stopped making games for me - they're making them for some other kind of gamer. That's not to say they're completely unplayable but rather to say that this 'other gamer' doesn't want to bother with equipping armour on his/her party, wants simple choices, simple mechanics, doesn't mind idiotic twists, etc.

Even aside from in-game content - day-one DLC, online passes, treatment by Bioware employees/moderators/twitter accounts, Bioware statements, the duplicitous EA marketing machine and other such things, have managed to sour people who would have once called themselves ardent Bioware fans.

So while on the one hand that's sad and no, the EC can't fix everything, on the other hand I think HTL has the potential to be something bigger and more important than just Mass Effect. Crap practices and crap treatment of gamers are becoming the industry norm. Now is as good a time as any to dig our heels in and say we're tired of being treated as some kind of money piñata.

"I came for the battle, I stayed for the war."

As for me, I suspect it's not so much the being cynical and losing hope. It's the having to wait without knowing what's coming. I suspect Bioware is doing that too. Waiting patiently for us to lose hope, and not bother fighting when EC comes out and invariably sucks. That's why there are no news, no acknowledgement of us -- and they try to keep us busy by having their serfs drop by this forum and ask the same exhausted questions they were asking during the "We Are Listening Era". While I appreciate Chris's willingness to come over and ask, I seriously doubt it'll amount to anything but keeping us entertained with the notion that they "Are Listening" and actually care.

As for me. I decided to take a break. Right now, I'm not counting the days to EC or drive myself insane reading between the lines on whatever post Chris Priestley puts up here, or what shows up on their Twitter accounts, or what voice actors say on interviews.

Right now, I'm saving my energies and hibernating, just enjoying this wonderful community and the fact that's summer and there are no more classes. That way, when EC comes, and if it sucks, I'm full rested and I can go Perfect Storm-style on BW's ass.

Do I expect it to suck? Oh hell yes. It all points to the fact that EAware (because I refuse to call Bioware by the name that they had when they actually loved their franchises) is unrepentant and unable to admit fault.
But when I have PROOF that EAware cocked the EC up, I already have a plan -- which is why I'm so relaxed right now.

1 - Avoid buying EAware products again, and, preferably EA too.
2 - If, by any miracle, they make a product I want (doubtful, seeing they cocked up the only two franchises in the marked I was following, Amalur is dead, Baldur's Gate went to their original owners and Cyberpunk 2020 is being developed by someone else) I'm not pre-ordering EVER again. I will wait until someone else trustworthy played it, preferably someone from here, or a friend. I might even rent it or borrow it.
3 - If, by an even bigger miracle, the game doesn't suck, and I NEED to have it, I'm buying it second hand. Ebay is a wonderful place. Right now, I'd rather give my money to GameStop than EA.
4 - Go medieval on EA's ass. Seriously. I'm going to be even more loud and obnoxious than before. I'll participate in every campaign I can find and I'll cheer the HTL people along to start new ones.

So, with such a steel clad plan in hands, I'm off to enjoy your company, my holidays, and the summer. When the EC comes, it can find me by the pool, chillaxing, mmkay?

@The Beserker -- I understand your concerns completely. It's a war of attrition unfortunately between the concerned consumer and the corporate entity that is now officially EAware. (Thank you Elsbeth! ) - and they have the secure bunker.

Taking a break sounds a good idea, although it's not what I did. I played through ME3 till just before the Earth mission and by that time couldn't face the debacle awaiting me, so I paused. I've been on hold since. It's tough too, waiting.. you can feel the fight slowly being drained away as the days roll on, but inspiring videos, other fans and general comradarie here make up for it. (Love that video @Austin Calloway )

It gave me chance, being on pause, to take stock at the game as objectively as I could. My very first impressions were somewhat diluted from the fact I saw the obnoxious option included to take away decisions in the game and play in "action mode". I assume this is directed at the casual gamer, and with a sinking feeling, I suspected that the Bioware company that still has me playing Neverwinter Nights ten years later has all but disappeared. I found that option, small and unobtrusive to be one of the most offensive things I have seen from a touted RPG, ever. It really irritated me. I was hoping though, like the few quirks and complaints I had with ME2, that the story would blow me away and all would be forgiven.

They were almost right.

Whilst the mechanics for fighting improved marginally, the general mechanics for the game ground to a halt. (Seriously no cinematics for sidequests anymore? Eavesdropping? That screams lazy, EAware.) The only saving grace was that I really enjoyed the story and looked forward to meeting all my favourite characters again, hoping they would live or die with me in a 'last stand' -- kinda like the Collector Base but more epic, with entire species helping. Course, I was disappointed again with many, aside from Liara and Tali whom my Sheps happened to romance from the first two. Bugs, and the fact I hadn't all the DLC completed from ME2 had me restart the second game to fully complete it. A reboot if you will.

This had me falling in love with the series again. And no, just because it all doesn't matter in 3, doesn't make 2 any less of an epic game. In any galaxy, ME2 is by far, one of the best video games ever, not simply sci-fi.

I guess with my ramblings, all I can say is keep faith and hold the line. ME1 deserves more. ME2 deserves more. Our squadmates deserve more. Conrad Verner deserves more. And hopefully if I can't help, perhaps listen to Admiral Hackett.

"Let me tell you something I’ve learnt the hard way:
You can pay a soldier to fire a gun. You can pay him to charge the enemy and take a hill. But you can’t pay him to believe.”"

For more inspirational Shepard stuff, click Malukah's song link on my signature. This gives me goose-bumps, still.

It feels like EA and Bioware think if they ignore the problem it will go away, and to a point it will. The problem is people like me, and apparently you, I'm getting to the point that it doesn't matter what's in the EC I'm through with Bioware. I want them to take as long as it takes to get the EC right, but all this time with no news and all anyone wants to say is they can't talk about it is getting to be to much. I wanted to see ME3 get the ending it deserves and BIoware start to fix their reputation, but I'm getting to the point that I don't care anymore.

It's definitely not a good way to handle things, but it feels like that's exactly what they are trying to do.

My pleasure.

Would you mind I borrow your Portuguese Fleet banner for my sig? I've been looking for a Portuguese Fleet banner for so long now and I finally found it!

@The Berserker Yes you are not alone, I feel your pain!
It's so hard coming to terms with a company you believed in! The only reason I'm still here is parts of ME3 resonated with ME1 & 2, telling me that there were still writers who cared about the story and their characters.
I'm hoping if we hold the line those writers and others who care about the ME universe will be heard by the company.
That the EC DLC will complete the game.

The only thing I do know is that history shows us that those who won their battles/conflicts did so not knowing they were going to win!
That's why I hang around (that and this awesome community) because I don't know what's going to happen but I won't stop fighting til the end.

Nope, none at all, as long as you don't mind my (lack of) img editing skills.
Nice to see more "tugas" around the forum.

I've gotten to the point where I look at the cover of ME3 and I loathe it. I've been devouring other games, movies, and books, I think subconsciously looking for something to make up for the complete lack of it in ME3. I've been writing a ME-related fanfic and I was hoping that when ME3 came out it would give me the boost I needed to get over the final hump and finish it. I managed another update as I was playing ME3, and started another, but it's been sitting there for a while now. And I know people have been following it and I feel bad about it. I want to finish it myself. But the drive, the inspiration just isn't there at the moment. I hate that modern Bioware did this to the universe Karpyshyn and others no longer there created, that countless fans have homaged and added to.

I know they were going for a 'war is hell' theme in ME3, but there's a difference between that and kicking your fans in the stomach repeatedly. ME3 was largely just a huge downer interspersed with brief blinks of optimism. Then the ending went and obliterated the ME universe just because Hudson/Walters thought it was 'deep'. The retcons, the plot holes, the frustrating feeling that everything choice you made and do make in this game don't make one damn bit of difference despite Bioware's taglines about this series since before ME1 came out.

Sorry, this turned into another rant. Basically, I hold out no hope at all for the EC but will be willing to be pleasantly surprised. As it is, though, I'm feeling horribly confident that Bioware has lost my money from now on. I'm certainly never preordering again, and I'm sure as hell looking at what other people say about their games instead of 'professional reviewers'.

Thanks so much! And there are a few of us around, which I'm glad for. There's at least another girl, Vasquez, and Bruno F about too.

Damn... It's a Portuguese invasion ! INCOMIIIIING !! (just kidding folks, I hope you won't take it badly, but coming from me, there's nothing to feel insulted for or anything like that )

@The Berserker : I can only sympathize, since I feel quite the same about the whole situation... Well, maybe I'm a little more cynical towards EAware (as @jmquintela said, thanks @Elsbeth for finding this one, it's really accurate... you should ask for money each time someone uses the name "EAware" ) since it's in my nature, but I understand only too well your frustration and disappointment towards the whole situation, and not only ME3's ending.